Discussions about interactive fiction

sizes for adventure items

I’ve been writing a text adventure creator that uses the old system where

the script has a list of adverts, nouns, messages, objects etc.

I need to define has much space is needed for items, for example Dim

Objects (100) as string. Which puts a limit of how many objects the

adventure can have.

What I’ve like to know if how many rooms and objects are used in adventures

these days on average?


Regards Brian

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posted by admin in Uncategorized and have Comments (12)

12 Responses to “sizes for adventure items”

  1. admin says:

    Brian <bcl…@es.co.nz> wrote:

    > I’ve been writing a text adventure creator that uses the old system where

    > the script has a list of adverts, nouns, messages, objects etc.

    > I need to define has much space is needed for items, for example Dim

    > Objects (100) as string. Which puts a limit of how many objects the

    > adventure can have.

    > What I’ve like to know if how many rooms and objects are used in adventures

    > these days on average?

    Or to put it another way, has anyone played or written an adventure with

    more than 100 locations?


    Regards Brian

  2. admin says:

    "Brian" <bcl…@es.co.nz> wrote in message

    news:1974898257389854879.211647bclark-es.co.nz@free.teranews.com…

    > Or to put it another way, has anyone played or written an adventure with

    > more than 100 locations?

    That’s hardly a rarity, plenty of larger adventures exist, and anyway,
    hardcoding array sizes is one of the worst "harmful" ideas in programming,
    probably way beyound Dijkstra’s lamented GOTO. Better give up that fixed
    size altogether and learn proper dynamic memory management.

    Regards

    Dimitrij

  3. admin says:

    You never know if someone will try to write the next Time Zone or Snowball, however discouraged they should be.  I funk some of Paul Panks’ approached this scale also

  4. admin says:

    In article <518ce6c4$0$6570$9b4e6…@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>,

    Dimitrij Klingbeil <nos…@no-address.com> wrote:

    >"Brian" <bcl…@es.co.nz> wrote in message
    >news:1974898257389854879.211647bclark-es.co.nz@free.teranews.com…

    >> Or to put it another way, has anyone played or written an adventure with

    >> more than 100 locations?

    >That’s hardly a rarity, plenty of larger adventures exist, and anyway,
    >hardcoding array sizes is one of the worst "harmful" ideas in programming,
    >probably way beyound Dijkstra’s lamented GOTO. Better give up that fixed
    >size altogether and learn proper dynamic memory management.

    Indeed.  The vital statistics of _Mentula Macanus: Apocolocyntosis_

    (which is large, but not as large as, say, _Blue Lacuna_) are:

      The 159129-word source text has successfully been translated into an

        intermediate description which can be run through Inform 6 to

        complete compilation. There were 175 rooms and 724 things.

    Also, take a look at what the current state of the art *is* in IF

    development languages.  If what you’re proposing to write isn’t at least

    as good as Inform 6, Inform 7, TADS 3, or Hugo (and I don’t think Quest

    is as good as those, but it has its adherents and sounds more like what

    you’re proposing, so look at it too)…then you might consider whether

    writing extensions to one of those systems, or games in one of those

    systems instead, is something you’d rather do.

    Adam

  5. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    Adam Thornton <a…@fsf.net> wrote:

    > In article <518ce6c4$0$6570$9b4e6…@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>,

    > Dimitrij Klingbeil <nos…@no-address.com> wrote:

    >> "Brian" <bcl…@es.co.nz> wrote in message
    >> news:1974898257389854879.211647bclark-es.co.nz@free.teranews.com…

    >>> Or to put it another way, has anyone played or written an adventure with

    >>> more than 100 locations?

    >> That’s hardly a rarity, plenty of larger adventures exist, and anyway,
    >> hardcoding array sizes is one of the worst "harmful" ideas in programming,
    >> probably way beyound Dijkstra’s lamented GOTO. Better give up that fixed
    >> size altogether and learn proper dynamic memory management.

    > Indeed.  The vital statistics of _Mentula Macanus: Apocolocyntosis_

    > (which is large, but not as large as, say, _Blue Lacuna_) are:

    >   The 159129-word source text has successfully been translated into an

    >     intermediate description which can be run through Inform 6 to

    >     complete compilation. There were 175 rooms and 724 things.

    > Also, take a look at what the current state of the art *is* in IF

    > development languages.  If what you’re proposing to write isn’t at least

    > as good as Inform 6, Inform 7, TADS 3, or Hugo (and I don’t think Quest

    > is as good as those, but it has its adherents and sounds more like what

    > you’re proposing, so look at it too)…then you might consider whether

    > writing extensions to one of those systems, or games in one of those

    > systems instead, is something you’d rather do.

    > Adam

    I’m converting over an old adventure creating program that started as a

    Basic program then it got transferred to Quick Basic and now I’m

    transferring it Visual Basic 2010. Its an on going project I and a friend

    have been working on and there have been many enhancements made to the

    program since the original version.  I enjoy it as a challenge to try and

    solve programming problems and in finding ways to enhance the program.


    Regards Brian

  6. admin says:

    "Dimitrij Klingbeil" <nos…@no-address.com> wrote:

    > "Brian" <bcl…@es.co.nz> wrote in message
    > news:1974898257389854879.211647bclark-es.co.nz@free.teranews.com…

    >> Or to put it another way, has anyone played or written an adventure with

    >> more than 100 locations?

    > That’s hardly a rarity, plenty of larger adventures exist, and anyway,
    > hardcoding array sizes is one of the worst "harmful" ideas in programming,
    > probably way beyound Dijkstra’s lamented GOTO. Better give up that fixed
    > size altogether and learn proper dynamic memory management.

    > Regards

    > Dimitrij

    I’m converting the adventure creating program from Quick Basic to Visual

    Basic 2010. There were limits in Quick Basic preventing the program from

    being developed more. I had the program count the number of items in the

    script and add this information to another file (compiled script file) so

    that when the compiled adventure file is read the program’s variables are

    dimensions enough to allow for all the items in script but this was not

    working.

    If there is a better way then it would be worth while learning new

    programming techniques.


    Regards Brian

  7. admin says:

    Am 10.05.2013 18:09, schrieb Brian:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > "Dimitrij Klingbeil" <nos…@no-address.com> wrote:

    >> "Brian" <bcl…@es.co.nz> wrote in message

    >> news:1974898257389854879.211647bclark-es.co.nz@free.teranews.com…

    >>> Or to put it another way, has anyone played or written an adventure with

    >>> more than 100 locations?

    >> That’s hardly a rarity, plenty of larger adventures exist, and anyway,

    >> hardcoding array sizes is one of the worst "harmful" ideas in programming,

    >> probably way beyound Dijkstra’s lamented GOTO. Better give up that fixed

    >> size altogether and learn proper dynamic memory management.

    >> Regards

    >> Dimitrij

    > I’m converting the adventure creating program from Quick Basic to Visual

    > Basic 2010. There were limits in Quick Basic preventing the program from

    > being developed more. I had the program count the number of items in the

    > script and add this information to another file (compiled script file) so

    > that when the compiled adventure file is read the program’s variables are

    > dimensions enough to allow for all the items in script but this was not

    > working.

    > If there is a better way then it would be worth while learning new

    > programming techniques.

    You could probably make use of dynamic arrays (via the "ReDim" statement):

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/vstudio/w8k3cys2.aspx

  8. admin says:

    > >>> Or to put it another way, has anyone played or written an adventure with

    > >>> more than 100 locations?

    > > I’m converting the adventure creating program from Quick Basic to Visual
    > > Basic 2010. There were limits in Quick Basic preventing the program from

    > > If there is a better way then it would be worth while learning new

    > > programming techniques.

    > You could probably make use of dynamic arrays (via the "ReDim" statement):

    Quite suboptimal for Visual Basic. Use an ArrayList.

  9. admin says:

    On Fri, 10 May 2013 07:35:02 -0700, Rowan Lipkovits wrote:

    > You never know if someone will try to write the next Time Zone or

    > Snowball, however discouraged they should be.  I funk some of Paul

    > Panks’ approached this scale also

    I think Snowball is an example how to make good use of a huge map. Once
    you understood the shape of the spaceship, you understood the layout of
    6800ish rooms that comprised the freezer storage for the colonists. So
    the huge size of the medical levels added to the sense of location and
    realism, rather than detracting from it.

    The descriptions of the curving corridors and intersections, and how the
    corridors meet are not random. It wasn’t a maze, but rather a request
    that you read and understood what the text was telling you!

    It’s one of my favorite adventures, and there are certainly some flaws,
    but I didn’t think the room amount was one of them. I normally hate mazes
    in adventures, but as I said, this wasn’t a maze!

    (SPOILER)

    You only really needed to know the layout later on anyway, when
    resuscitating the crew member. The bracelet acted like a navigation
    system, which made it quite quick to find where you needed to go.

  10. admin says:

    Michael Neal Tenuis <michael.neal.ten…@gmail.com> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > Am 10.05.2013 18:09, schrieb Brian:

    >> "Dimitrij Klingbeil" <nos…@no-address.com> wrote:

    >>> "Brian" <bcl…@es.co.nz> wrote in message

    >>> news:1974898257389854879.211647bclark-es.co.nz@free.teranews.com…

    >>>> Or to put it another way, has anyone played or written an adventure with

    >>>> more than 100 locations?

    >>> That’s hardly a rarity, plenty of larger adventures exist, and anyway,

    >>> hardcoding array sizes is one of the worst "harmful" ideas in programming,

    >>> probably way beyound Dijkstra’s lamented GOTO. Better give up that fixed

    >>> size altogether and learn proper dynamic memory management.

    >>> Regards

    >>> Dimitrij

    >> I’m converting the adventure creating program from Quick Basic to Visual

    >> Basic 2010. There were limits in Quick Basic preventing the program from

    >> being developed more. I had the program count the number of items in the

    >> script and add this information to another file (compiled script file) so

    >> that when the compiled adventure file is read the program’s variables are

    >> dimensions enough to allow for all the items in script but this was not

    >> working.

    >> If there is a better way then it would be worth while learning new

    >> programming techniques.

    > You could probably make use of dynamic arrays (via the "ReDim" statement):

    > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/vstudio/w8k3cys2.aspx

    The only way I could make redim work with be to add 10 to the dimensioned

    variable each time the number of items being loaded is about to exceed the

    current dimensioned variable.


    Regards Brian

  11. admin says:

    Am 11.05.2013 13:01 schrieb Brian:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > Michael Neal Tenuis <michael.neal.ten…@gmail.com> wrote:

    >> Am 10.05.2013 18:09, schrieb Brian:

    >>> "Dimitrij Klingbeil" <nos…@no-address.com> wrote:

    >>>> "Brian" <bcl…@es.co.nz> wrote in message

    >>>> news:1974898257389854879.211647bclark-es.co.nz@free.teranews.com…

    >>>>> Or to put it another way, has anyone played or written an adventure with

    >>>>> more than 100 locations?

    >>>> That’s hardly a rarity, plenty of larger adventures exist, and anyway,

    >>>> hardcoding array sizes is one of the worst "harmful" ideas in programming,

    >>>> probably way beyound Dijkstra’s lamented GOTO. Better give up that fixed

    >>>> size altogether and learn proper dynamic memory management.

    >>>> Regards

    >>>> Dimitrij

    >>> I’m converting the adventure creating program from Quick Basic to Visual

    >>> Basic 2010. There were limits in Quick Basic preventing the program from

    >>> being developed more. I had the program count the number of items in the

    >>> script and add this information to another file (compiled script file) so

    >>> that when the compiled adventure file is read the program’s variables are

    >>> dimensions enough to allow for all the items in script but this was not

    >>> working.

    >>> If there is a better way then it would be worth while learning new

    >>> programming techniques.

    >> You could probably make use of dynamic arrays (via the "ReDim" statement):

    >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/vstudio/w8k3cys2.aspx

    > The only way I could make redim work with be to add 10 to the dimensioned

    > variable each time the number of items being loaded is about to exceed the

    > current dimensioned variable.

    Well, if it works… sometimes it’s good for one’s motivation to just
    throw something together quickly, even if it seems clunky or ad hoc.
    It’s nice to see some results, and then one can improve later, step by step.

    On the other hand, of course, a bit of forethought and planning can help
    to avoid a lot of unnecessary work. How do you want users to interact
    with your program? Will they use a normal text editor to create their
    adventures, or will they have an interface with menus, drop-down lists
    and text boxes (but maybe with the option to edit the files with an
    external editor)?

    Depending on how human-readable you want the files to be, you could
    maybe use formats like JSON or YAML to store the adventure’s data (so
    you don’t have to reinvent the wheel):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML

    (Although this might be overkill.)

    By the way, here’s an example of the use of an ArrayList, as rpresser
    suggested:

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302309/EN-US

  12. admin says:

    Michael Neal Tenuis <michael.neal.ten…@gmail.com> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > Am 11.05.2013 13:01 schrieb Brian:

    >> Michael Neal Tenuis <michael.neal.ten…@gmail.com> wrote:

    >>> Am 10.05.2013 18:09, schrieb Brian:

    >>>> "Dimitrij Klingbeil" <nos…@no-address.com> wrote:

    >>>>> "Brian" <bcl…@es.co.nz> wrote in message

    >>>>> news:1974898257389854879.211647bclark-es.co.nz@free.teranews.com…

    >>>>>> Or to put it another way, has anyone played or written an adventure with

    >>>>>> more than 100 locations?

    >>>>> That’s hardly a rarity, plenty of larger adventures exist, and anyway,

    >>>>> hardcoding array sizes is one of the worst "harmful" ideas in programming,

    >>>>> probably way beyound Dijkstra’s lamented GOTO. Better give up that fixed

    >>>>> size altogether and learn proper dynamic memory management.

    >>>>> Regards

    >>>>> Dimitrij

    >>>> I’m converting the adventure creating program from Quick Basic to Visual

    >>>> Basic 2010. There were limits in Quick Basic preventing the program from

    >>>> being developed more. I had the program count the number of items in the

    >>>> script and add this information to another file (compiled script file) so

    >>>> that when the compiled adventure file is read the program’s variables are

    >>>> dimensions enough to allow for all the items in script but this was not

    >>>> working.

    >>>> If there is a better way then it would be worth while learning new

    >>>> programming techniques.

    >>> You could probably make use of dynamic arrays (via the "ReDim" statement):

    >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/vstudio/w8k3cys2.aspx

    >> The only way I could make redim work with be to add 10 to the dimensioned

    >> variable each time the number of items being loaded is about to exceed the

    >> current dimensioned variable.

    > Well, if it works… sometimes it’s good for one’s motivation to just

    > throw something together quickly, even if it seems clunky or ad hoc. It’s

    > nice to see some results, and then one can improve later, step by step.

    > On the other hand, of course, a bit of forethought and planning can help

    > to avoid a lot of unnecessary work. How do you want users to interact

    > with your program? Will they use a normal text editor to create their

    > adventures, or will they have an interface with menus, drop-down lists

    > and text boxes (but maybe with the option to edit the files with an external editor)?

    > Depending on how human-readable you want the files to be, you could maybe

    > use formats like JSON or YAML to store the adventure’s data (so you don’t

    > have to reinvent the wheel):

    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON

    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML

    > (Although this might be overkill.)

    > By the way, here’s an example of the use of an ArrayList, as rpresser suggested:

    > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302309/EN-US

    Thanks Michael for the useful links.


    Regards Brian

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